Synopsis: Chris Scott interviews Joe Eisele, a nationally certified alcohol and drug therapist, on his story of drug and alcohol dependence, what life was like through his addiction, how the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous (AA) helped him to foster and nurture sobriety, how biochemical restoration therapies provided the final missing link to his personal recovery puzzle, and what people can expect when being treated at his holistic treatment program called InnerBalance Health Center (in Loveland, Colorado).
- Learn more by visiting InnerBalanceHealthCenter.com
- Or by checking out Joe Eisle’s book: Leaving Drug and Alcohol Addictions for Good
Speaker 1: If you look at the studies have been done over the last many years for eight, for 80 years, traditional treatment has gotten about a five, 10 or 15% success rate. And it's our opinion that they're living out the most important part. And that's the biochemical piece in order for any human being to have a quality life, to have a meaningful life. We need to have a lot of strong, loving, spiritual connections. We need to feel loved for ourself, our family, our animals, our friends nature, maybe a connection with a higher power sees connections. He's loving connections that give meaning to our life. And that's exactly what drug and alcohol will damage are actually severed. When patients come to our, our treatment center, they're fighting with their family. They're not going out in nature. They're not exercising. And if they had a connection with a higher power, it's been damaged or destroyed.
Speaker 2: Thanks for tuning into the elevation recovery podcast, your hub for addiction, recovery strategies hosted by Chris Scott and Matt Finch.
Speaker 3: I went to the elevation recovery podcast. I'm Chris Scott. Today. I'm joined by Joe Eisley, who is the clinical director and founder of inner balance health center, which is a, we have program, a residential program in Loveland, Colorado, I believe. And one of the few that I actually wished I had gone to because they, they specialize in biochemical restoration along with other modalities of treatment, you know, the traditional ones as well, but a real big emphasis on biochemical repairs we say, or biochemical restoration and Joe himself had to address his own addiction. Found that biochemical restoration was really helpful for him in healing himself of the insomnia and depression and anxiety. Those are the three big symptoms that I had in post-acute withdrawal as well that I found I had to resolve. If I wanted to keep on with my recovery. Joe is also the author of a really good book called leaving alcohol and drug addictions for good or leaving for good, I think is the title. And so we're going to have a natural flowing conversation today as I like to have. And, you know, we talked for about two minutes before this podcast started and I can already tell, we could probably talk for three hours. So thank you, Joe, for being on the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Chris. Appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I'd love to hear a little bit about your own personal story. If you wouldn't mind, you know, how did you develop an issue with addiction and you know, how did you start finding your way out of it?
Speaker 1: Sure. I'd be glad to share that Chris. I was grew up in Southern California. I would classify classify myself as a shy kid. I was about 13. I moved to a new school, new school. I had one, one friend herb and, and I had, I had a hard, hard time sleeping at night when I was about seven years old. And I think it was a result of too much caffeine from pop and maybe watching movies. I shouldn't, but I developed this incredible fear. My mind wouldn't slow down and all night, I'd be thinking about somebody in the house with a knife or there's a Creek on the roof. And maybe somebody trying to get in the house and I'd lay in my bed just like stiff waiting somebody to come around the corner. And I remember I tried to sleep with my parents for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: They kicked me out. I tried to sleep with my sister and her other bed in her room. She kicked me out, but that went on for a long, long time. And plus being a shy kid and I couldn't get my thoughts together very well. Especially in school. I was a kind of a loner, but I did meet this one, one kid when I moved into Canyon elementary school and we hung out together. We were buddies. We used to hike behind the Hills where we lived on the weekends and we loved that. We kind of loved hanging out with each other. But I remember the, probably the thing that started it all was I was home from school and I was watching television and I was coughing with the cold. And all of a sudden, my mom comes in is, Hey, take this liquid down. So I swallowed it down.
Speaker 1: And for the next four hours, I sat there and stared at the television set. I didn't change the channel. My mom went off shopping and I went into the most peaceful state I'd ever experienced in my life. My mind just slowed down and I just stared at that TV and, and didn't even know it was on and that feeling went away, but it was a wonderful feeling. The next day she came in, she gave me some more of this red liquid, this coding, cough syrup. And I got this same wonderful feeling. The cough went away. I went back to school, but I could not get that feeling out of my mind. It was just wonderful. I'd never felt that, that piece in my head before. And so in choose out one day, I remember going down in her medicine cabinet and opening the door and sure enough, there was a red bottle of Cody and I started sipping on it every couple of days to get that nice feeling.
Speaker 1: And it started to go down and I'm thinking, my gosh, just can't continue. She's going to not know it. So one day when I was in there, I looked to the left and there's a big pill bottle. And it said, take one of her four hours for pain. Now my uncle was a physician. He's the one that gave her these. I figured that, you know, he wouldn't give her anything that was harmful. So I took a couple of these big, large horse pills. They were red and gray. I'll never forget them. And I took a couple out. I was a little nervous, but I took one and I got that same wonderful feeling from that Darvon. And that, that set off an addiction or I would, I wouldn't even, I call it a search for, for a wonderful feeling. It was a, it was a search for that feeling that I got from that coding, cough syrup.
Speaker 1: And I started experimenting with alcohol and I started sneaking alcohol out of our medicine cabinet and drinking, getting high. And then I invited one night, my buddy Herberger. And this tells me something because I wanted to introduce him to alcohol. And I did, my parents were having a party. I snuck some scotch out and we started drinking it and coughing, and we're getting high. We snuck out of our room and wrote up to the bowling alley, getting drunk, coming back, fallen off our bikes. We ripped our clothes climbing over the fence, stumbled back into my room. And one of us threw up. I don't know who it was. We both passed out. Now the next morning when I woke up, I looked at herb and said, wasn't that fun? That was great. He said, I hated it. I don't like that out of control feeling.
Speaker 1: So that tells me there was something going on with my chemistry different than his. And that was the first relationship I lost because of my addiction. I started gravitating towards kids who drank, like I did party, like I wanted to do. He was more in sports. And so we kind of went our separate way, but I had a love affair with chemicals through, through high school. They did for me, what I couldn't do for myself. I made a lot of friends. I remember stealing a girl from a big, a big football player that I was really proud of that. But then when I picked her up one night to go on a date, I was so drunk. I stumbled into the house and passed out. Her mother would let me never let me see her again. So, but, but it didn't affect me. I didn't think that my school was going down, but every, all my friends were doing the same thing.
Speaker 1: So it was kind of like normal. You're all out of control, all drinking, all party. Well, after high school, I, it started getting more and more out of control. My buddy, Tony and I tried to go to college for a couple of years. I had to drop out cause I, I was drinking and using something daily. Now I had different doctors giving me different things like ASCA trial was a wonderful drug back then. It was like a capsule, a contact capsule. It was speed cut with Faena Barbara tall, very addictive. The, a pharmacist finally had it pulled off the market. But I love that drug. I would tell the doctors, I, I was work working in a job and I needed energy to get going. And I need something to relax it and they'd give me Valium or they give me chlorohydrate sleeping pills. So I was becoming pretty addicted to a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: I started to lose jobs and I started, it affects my relationship. I meet a gal, we'd hang out for a good while. But then my addiction started messing up. The relationship I'd show up drunk I'd you know, and I, and those were never my intentions, but it was happening. And then they would always start complaining about my use. And then, and by then, that was the only solution I had to, to relieve the problems that the chemicals are having. So I would lose those relationships. They would go by the wayside. I didn't know I'm getting arrested by the police. A lot of times in Santa Monica, just common drunk after the bars are closed, stumbling around and not finding my car and they'd picked me up. And then I started ending up in mental hospitals. I ended up probably ended up over about a period of six years in about four mental hospitals, the worst being Camry, state hospital.
Speaker 1: Because by now I thought there was something mentally wrong with me. My life was so out of control and I wasn't really associating with the chemicals because one thing I've learned is that when we're in our addiction are the thing that's causing the problems is also the solution to our problems. So solution th the relief from the withdrawal problems that all of the emotional problems that these chemicals are causing, they're the only solution I had to relieve those problems. And so I couldn't go of them eventually. And this, this was over a period of about 15 years. I, I was really out of control. The last four years. I was lonely. I, I lose an apartment. I'd have, I'd be homeless for a while. I was, I was living on the street this one time and going from friend to friend, and then we get a fight.
Speaker 1: They've kicked me out. And I met a cab driver in Hollywood and he and I partied for about two weeks, totally out of control. My mother knew it. I used to, she used to take me home and clean me up. Yeah. And feed me for a week or two. Then I go back out and start it all over again. But so my brother said, mother told my brother, we have to do something. He's going to kill himself. So they picked me up. They, the deal was there. They, they told me we were going to go to the Santa Nita horse track one a Sunday. Well, what they did is they took me back to Brockman Memorial hospital and they took these drugs I had in my satchel and I don't, they took them in and to the emergency part of the hospital. And they're trying to have me committed.
Speaker 1: And I don't know what they said, but I think they probably said something like, you know, we're not the police. We can't do this. You guys have to get out of here. Well, they throw my bags out and left me there. So I'm in the waiting room, this hospital, I didn't know what to do. I do. And I was pretty messed up coming down. And I figured I'd call my mom and she'd take me in and cleaned me up. Well, I called her and I said, mom, I, I need some help. I think I have to come home. And then I hear the tears on the other end of the phone and she's crying. She says, Joe, you're killing yourself. And you're killing me. She didn't say a one way ticket, but she said, I'll buy a ticket to Colorado. I had a cousin out here who was in AA and had a few years of sobriety.
Speaker 1: And my mom and dad had tried everything. They tried to have me committed, dark and on, and I wouldn't go there because they wanted to shave my head and take all my worldly possessions. And I didn't have much, but I didn't want them to have them. So I wouldn't go in there. So I, I took, I got on the plane. It was in the mid, it was January and is a big snow storm in Colorado. And I landed there and my Southern California closed and it was freezing. And now I didn't know this, but my, and I was on, I was addicted to about 10 years on Valium, plus other drugs and alcohol. And I'm really starting to come down. And I w I looked in my bag for my, my drugs and they were gone. And I didn't know it at the time, but my brother took him out before it put me on the airplane.
Speaker 1: So now I'm going through a very serious withdrawal. My cousin picks me up, sticks me, brings him out to Fort Collins, sticks me in our basement with a concrete floor, unfinished basement, a mattress and a jug of water. And I start shaking and over, over the next couple of days, seeing bugs come out of the wall and it was very bad. And so she got me appointed with this psychiatrist. He was kind of a specialist in alcohol in this area. She took me to meet with him. I sat in his office and he knew I couldn't talk. I, he said, what can I do for you? Young, man, I couldn't speak. He put me in the hospital. They didn't know how to bring you off at value, or it'd be benzos back then. So they just cold Turkey. They gave me some old antidepressant like hell doll or something.
Speaker 1: And, and then I showed up in the hospital for about seven days. He suggested I go up to treatment up the mountains of harmony, a traditional 12 step program. And I said, sure, I knew, I knew I was in bad shape. And so I went up there and it was pretty laxed, but I tried, you know, you could gamble until two and you could come to class if you wanted to. And, but I tried and afterwards I tried staying sober. I hung around with the people I got sober with. In other words, they are in Denver. I was in Fort Collins, but I'd go down and visit him and we'd do stuff like maybe go to an AA meeting or maybe go dance, you know, whatever. And one by one, those people I was in treatment with started relapsing. And there was only myself and my roommate who was in harmony.
Speaker 1: I was with my roommate. He and I were the only ones left. And I remember going down on a Saturday, knocking on his door and he was drunk. I came home and I was scared and I didn't going in and out of AA, but not doing much about it. And I got a root canal and the dentist said, you might want something for the pain. And the little voice inside said, you better not do it. All right, I'll take it. I couldn't handle it doc. Well, that started a three-year relapse in and out of a Mo mostly with alcohol relapsing, but I never shared in AA. I never stayed around because of my anxiety. I couldn't sleep more than a, an hour a night. The, the anxiety, I couldn't get my thoughts into words to even talk. If I wanted to, my diet was horrible.
Speaker 1: I, I was living off of Kentucky fried chicken. McDonald's drinking a six pack of Coke a day, smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. So I was miserable, but I was not. And I was trying in and out, but not doing the work that people I think need to do in a 12 step program. And finally went back to treatment. After three years, came out of treatment committed a few weeks later, I went back to Chicago to see this gal I knew. And then I got drunk for about a week, a horrible binge left there destroyed that relationship, came back to Fort Collins and it was, and I did, I start going through some withdrawals, Dr. Fran couldn't help me with medication. They wouldn't let me back in treatment. And it was a Wednesday night, March 18th, 1981. I didn't know what I was going to do.
Speaker 1: So I hopped in this old beat up old, some bill I had, and I started driving from Fort Collins to, are you estimating and love? And it was an AA meeting that I'd been there off and on. And I didn't know what was going to happen, but I was in a lot of pain all the way to, to love the Nyman, screaming at the top of my lungs. If there's a God, why are you doing this to it? To me? Why can't I get sober? And then I break down in tears. And I, and I remember having the thoughts. All I have to do is turn the wheel a little bit to the right and I could end it all. But I didn't. And I got to the meeting and two miracles happened to me that night. The first was, I never share today in meetings. There's about 10 people. And it, when it came around to me, something told me you better share. So I said, my name's Joe, I'm an alcoholic. I don't know how to quit drinking. I'm afraid I'm going to die. The other miracle is, is there's this little old lady automated. Steven's sitting to the right of me. She knew me. She turned to me and put her finger in my face and says, you've got to get a sponsor. You've been trying to do this alone. So that took that night. I went and got a sponsor.
Speaker 1: Bill invited me in the first thing he asked me is Joe D do you want to quit drinking? I said, yes, bill. I've got to, it's going to kill me. Second question. Are you ready to do the work it takes to get well? And I said, yes, bill. I am. So he laid out a bunch of things and we sat and talked for a couple hours. And then, then he told me to sleep on a couch. Cause I was just emotionally spent and incredible feeling came over me. And I didn't know about the big book or AA and bill Wilson, any of that. But this peaceful feeling came over me, whether it was just emotionally spent or the fact that I finally surrendered and I'm getting help, but that started my journey into recovery. Okay. And I, I worked the program. I worked my sponsor.
Speaker 1: I did what he told me to do. I went to two meetings a day, started reaching out to people. We got in a book study and this that went on for about eight months, but I was still depressed. I was still anxious. I couldn't sleep. I was still miserable. I was, I was hanging on by the threads and it w it was because of my, I had a great sponsor. But, but then what happened was I was in a bookstore one day and I'm looking around and I'm in the health section, pull this book out by Dr. Broda Barnes. And it's a book on the thyroid. Now I had, when I was a kid, I love to stay in a hot bath in the morning. I hated to get out of a warm, a bath. My mom had to drag me out. I'm constantly cold.
Speaker 1: People complain about my cold hands and feet. And I read this book, Dr. Barnes and his symptoms fit me perfectly. Okay. So I go to my doctor, friend, doctor Ash, and I said, Ken, I think I got a thyroid problem. He says, well, Joe, there's one of the best endocrinologists in Denver. You should go down and see her. So I went down there and I met this, this older, older lady. She's pretty old. She did some blood work. And then I get all excited because she's going to find out I had thyroid problem and fix me. Well, I went back and she's looking at my labs. And she said, you don't have a thyroid problem. All your, all your labs are normal limits. And then I got really sad, depressed all the way back to Fort Collins. I'm thinking, what the heck? How could I have all these symptoms?
Speaker 1: So I brought, I took his book down again and I read it again. And I read it more thoroughly and brought a barn says, if you want to find out, if you've got 80% chance of the thyroid or 20% chance of adrenal function, what you do is you take it to the monitor at night, shake it down, put it on your nightstand in the morning. When you wake up, you put it under your arm for 10 minutes, and then you measure your body temperature because the thyroid is what gives us feat. What gives our body heat. And if you've got low body temperature, more than likely, you've got a thyroid problem. And sure enough, I had a really low body temperature. So I went to his website. I found a doctor in castle rock who had treatment symptoms, not based on the labs. And interestingly enough, over time, over the last several years, those, the TSH levels have come down, down, down, and mine was right on the border.
Speaker 1: And, but I was classified as normal. But what we know today is all the holistic doctors and functional medicine doctors. They want to get your TSH down to about a two. And mine was like a five. The emperor upper limit was like a five and a half. And so, so this doctor started treating me and, and I started feeling better. And then there was about six months after that, I found a holistic doctor in Denver, Dr. Terry groves. And he did a lot of lab work. He was just getting started an incredible guy. And he found out I had adrenal exhaustion at low levels of testosterone and DHA. He found out these neurotransmitters in my brain, the serotonin, the GABA receptors for anxiety, serotonin for depression, and then the dopamine receptors just for an overall well feeling of wellbeing. They're all low because my diet was horrible.
Speaker 1: We need these amino acids from our food, eat healthy food. If our guts working properly, we break down these foods into amino acids, and then they can cross the blood-brain barrier and convert tryptophan converts into serotonin GABA can blue to mine, converse to GABA, and then tyrasine and fetal aniline convert to dopamine. So he gave me a pharmaceutical grade of all these amino acids. He found out I had lead mercury and arsenic in my body. And he started key leading that out. So that kind of started my journey in today. What I call biochemical restoration. So from there that started me feeling better and better. That's still not, you know, probably about 60%. I found it got connected with Dr. Fields in Fort Collins. She was really the one I had bad allergies and I went to see an allergist, but she's the one that started to, you got to get off of your diet.
Speaker 1: Your diet is horrible. Joel, you're eating this junk food, six pack of sugar a day. You're not going to live very long and smoking. So I did, I started trying to clean up my diet. I remember getting off cigarettes. I remember I wanted to be a runner. I wanted to start running because my sponsor was a runner. So I went out and I was making about five bucks an hour. So I went and bought these real expensive for me. They're expensive running shoes. Cause I was going to be a big runner. Like my, my, my sponsor. And I went to, I was living with three other guys at city park. And I remember I went home and I laced up these running shoes. I ran around the park and it almost killed me. I came back in and I was coughing. I couldn't breathe very well.
Speaker 1: And I lit up a cigarette and I said, this is crazy. I've either got to take these running shoes back. Or I got to try to give up the cigarettes. So I tried and I did, and I eventually gave up, I keep the running shoes in my car and every time I'd get a craving for a cigarette, I'd run around the park, ended up running a marathon that almost killed me. I don't think I'd do it again. But I ran a marathon w and I was pretty proud of that. But then she helped me. I got off all the diet and all of that stuff. So that, that's kind of how I started. And then I got into the treatment field. It's kind of a roundabout way. I didn't know what I was going to do with my life. So I answered an ad in the paper that Dr. [inaudible],
Speaker 1: he had it. He was running a residential program for kids with school problems, not necessarily addiction to school problems, but the issue was 80% of these kids had an addiction problem. And they were sneaking out at night or their friends were sneaking drugs in. So I was hired to keep these kids from sneaking out. Well, I wasn't very good at it. So after about a month and a half, it wasn't working. So I went to art and I said, art, cause the account that teachers are getting mad at art because these kids are falling asleep in school. They can't study. So he said, well, then we've got to open up a treatment center for kids for drugs. So we did, we started Lyrica youth homes. So I got started there for a year and a half. Then I went and got worked in a DUI program, got certified.
Speaker 1: And then Dr. Ash was opening up outpatient program. So he asked me to be involved with him and some other people. And we opened that up. So it was a traditional program for about 15 years. And, but the last few years, I started trying to move them in a different direction because this whole time I'm exercising, I'm eating healthy, taking certain supplements and I'm educating myself. I'm going to the health, health bookstore and trying to read as much health stuff as I could because, you know, I was finding stuff that was messed up inside of me. There was causing all this depression and this anxiety and they didn't want to move in that direction. So I ended up leaving there and got a partner. We opened up in our ballot, says about 21 years ago. And it was pretty rudimentary in the beginning. We had some doctors helping us.
Speaker 1: They're doing some basic blood work. We're outpatient three days a week. And then doctor Dr. M Biblica, Roger Billerica. He was the head of NASA for 11 years. He came to Fort console, open up other sick program. He hooked up with us, me and my partner. And that's when we really started to take off doing a lot more holistic stuff. And it's just evolved over there. Over time, we doubled, we bought a five five-star bed and breakfast and Loveland and, and so we're full, full blown now holistic. And what our definition of holistic means for people to understand is in order for somebody to fully recover, we needed to treat for things that we have to heal from the damage of addiction, the mind, the body, the spirit, and the environment, all four of those elements have to fully EO traditional treatment does well with the mind of helping people convince him that they, they can't control the chemicals that that's, that they're always gonna end up losing control and that's what's causing the problems.
Speaker 1: And, and then, and the spiritual part that can help them. That's where I think a 12 step program like a comes in it's, it's a pretty spiritual program. It can give a lot of good support, but the thing that's been missing, I think in traditional treatment, if you look at this studies have been done over the last many years for eight, for 80 years, the traditional treatment has gotten about a five, 10 or 15% success rate. And it's our opinion that they're living out the most important part. And that's about chemical piece. So we do a lot of lab work. When our clients come in, we're doing genetic testing. I don't know any other programs doing. We're finding three genes that are problematic with the addicted people. 40% of our people have what's called an MTHFR 1298. Gene. What it means is that your, your body's not uploading or able to take in folic acid.
Speaker 1: Folic acid is that nutrient that is critically for these neurotransmitter functions in the brain. It helps them work better. If you look on Google and you look up the MTHFR, 1298 gene, a couple of really good websites going to find out the symptoms are addictions, mood issues, mental health issues, because they're not getting folic acid. Now we can't fix that gene. But if we find it, we just give them now a methylated for a folic acid. So they don't need that gene to work. We're finding the CBS. Gene is a biopterin issue. We have to give them a biopterin. If we find that gene we're doing, we're looking for high histamines, a lot of our clients are, have, have high histamine called the tissue condition called history. Dahlia is where the neurons in the brain are firing way too fast. You cancel your mind down.
Speaker 1: I had that condition. I think that's what led me to be know, being, staying up all night, not being able to fall asleep and what my mind would grab a hold of because it had to think about something because it was constantly going. I grab a hold of somebody in the room or somebody in the house going to get me, you know, and that's what I think about all the time. So we would that, that, and you can bring down histamine levels. Pyra. Lori is a blood condition that we find we're doing testing for the neurotransmitters in the brain. Diet is very important part of our program and get people on a healthy diet, getting them exercising. And the spiritual part of our program is really important because what I've come to understand in my life is that in order for any human being, to have a quality life, to have a meaningful life, we need to have a lot of strong, loving, spiritual connections.
Speaker 1: We need to feel up for ourselves, our family, our animals, our friends nature may be a connection with a higher power. It's these connections. He's loving connections that give meaning to our life. And that's exactly what drug and alcohol will damage are actually severed. When patients come to our, our treatment center, they're fighting with their family. They're not going out in nature. They're not exercising. And if they had a connection with a higher power, it's been damaged or destroyed. So we take our spiritual counselor, takes him out on a five five-hour nature, walk and out there, he starts exploring. What did you feel love for before you got into your addiction? When you were younger, did you have animals? You love family, you love, and how did that feel? How did, how did it feel to feel love for things? And then what's happened to those connections because of your addiction. And then when they come back, they start working on developing those connections. And that's where I think support groups come in absolutely critical because it helps people start connecting with each other again. So there's a lot of that,
Speaker 3: A zoo for a second. All of that is amazing. I feel like I just watched a movie that you painted with your words, and I didn't want to stop you. That's probably one of the best monologues we've had in, in this podcast history. So thank you for that. I wanted to understand, you said that after the amino acids that you had taken, you said you were maybe 60% or so better. What other missing links did you have? Was it addressing the history of Delia and the folic acid issue where those now?
Speaker 1: Yes. I only found out about three years ago that I had the 1298 gene. My ma my wife has a six 77 gene. And that means you're more prone to heart disease and cancer, but the fix for both. And my daughter's got both of those, the fix for them is just taking methylfolate and methyl B12. And that brings down your homocysteine levels. That's why the six, seven, seven is more heart problems. Cause people get elevated, whatever that was not homocysteine, but, but the thing that causes heart problems. So it reduces that. And so, yeah, I just found that out a while back histamine, I found out a few years ago I had, yeah. And I, if I had those all my life, those are conditions that are genetic. Yeah. And constantly redefining my diet and looking at it and changing it. [inaudible]
Speaker 3: Yeah. As I like to say for myself that my lifestyle optimization is an ongoing and never ending thing. Like I'm still experimenting with my diet and I'm learning things, I didn't know, year after year. And generally, you know, there, there are ebbs and flows, but the overall trend line for me is positive. I feel better each year because I learned something. Sometimes it's in the row of fitness. You know, I benefited from making a transition from only lifting really heavy weights a few years ago to also doing some like high intensity type training and a blow more cardio stuff. That was a good thing. You know, there's always things and even spiritual things, you know, I've some books that I've read lately. I always share with my, I send out an email every Friday to people on my email list. I've recently had read the power of now by Eckrich toll and the untethered soul by Michael singer.
Speaker 3: And I've had these Epiphanes and I try to share them. So it's like a constant process, but at least, you know, one of the things I got from quitting drinking was I could get, I could reach a point where life felt very worth living, even if I was just sitting by myself. And I never really felt that before that I'd been to avoid. But in my case, I had never had like a childhood trauma to the best of my knowledge. Maybe I blocked something out, but I had a great childhood. Everyone has some minor traumas or a kid's mean to you at recess or whatever, but there was no real explanation for my addiction from a pure psychological standpoint, but having been adopted and exposed to alcohol in the womb, then everything suddenly makes made sense. And what I read, I think it was seven weeks to sobriety by Joan Larsen. And then some of Julia Ross's work as well. I was like, this is it. You know, that that's what's going on. So one of the cool things I think you do, sorry,
Speaker 1: Th this is what I tell our patients. This is what our job is, our job, because I was searching, I searching to feel better. I think every addict and alcoholic in their illness is searching for things to make them feel better to self-medicate. Our job is to get them off this drug and alcohol path and get on exactly what you got. And what you're describing is a healthy path to feel better. All of these things can make us feel better that were exercise, diet, supplements. That that's what I, we tell our clients, you got to get off this bad track and get on a healthy track. Exactly,
Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah. And I often tell people they don't believe me all the time, but I feel better after a day on the water in the sun and then maybe a couple of sprints and a smoothie than I ever felt after drinking three bottles of wine, especially wine, all those chemical compounds and additives in there. I never actually figured out until much later why I felt so horrible after drinking multiple bottles of wine, but there's more going on there than the alcohol. But I mean, alcohol was the big thing, obviously. And yeah, and so I like to say I'm, I'm high on life. I've been high on life for me. It wasn't a pink cloud. I think there is such a thing as a pink cloud. For some people that's kind of AA terminology for feeling temporarily high on your own sobriety and early phase. But if I am on a pink cloud, the sustained by being out in the sun, doing things, getting fulfillment by helping other people, you could say, I have a higher power, even though I haven't been involved with AA by my own choice, you know, for a number of years now, but I definitely have that sense that there's something greater than me and all of that does fuse together.
Speaker 3: I think for anyone, whether or not they've had a substance addiction, these are like the tenants of a healthy life.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I agree. A hundred percent. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think one of the really cool things that you do is approach everyone as an individual and do these custom lab tests. Because as you've said, it's really important to make sure that biochemical pillar, which is the most ignored pillar of recovery is understood in the context of each person's individual biochemistry. So I know you'd mentioned some of those things, you mentioned the blood condition. Is there a PI role? I can't ever remember. It starts with a P
Speaker 1: Yeah. [inaudible].
Speaker 3: Yeah. And I know what are some other lab tests that you might do? Cause we might now have some people thinking, well, I tried took the fan and DL fenal alanine didn't work. So I must have a folic acid, a genetic issue, but it's more complicated than that. There's probably a dozen or so tests that you would want to look into, right?
Speaker 1: If anybody wants to get a copy of the labs, we do, they're welcome to call or email. We'll fax them over to you and you can take them to your doctor and have him run. I get people asking me that all the time, vitamin D you talk about this sun, 70% of our clients, and that correlates with this country, 70% of the people are deficient in D vitamin D is now one of the biggest proponents of helping me with the COVID the virus COVID, they're giving them high amounts of vitamin D Dr. Fields with their cancer patients gives them high amounts of IB, vitamin D I think vitamin D is just the nutrient of the century. There isn't anything more important, cause it's really not a vitamin. It's a more of a hormone, what it does in the body. So we test all of our clients for vitamin D and, and then we, we we're testing them for all this stuff.
Speaker 1: I talked about the pyros, it genetics, the hormones are big. We test for low testosterone, low DHA, and for women more the estrogens and progesterones and things like that. Yeah. So yeah, there's several things. They're all in the book here too. A lot of all the things we test for, but if anybody wants to get a copy, though, I think personally, I think everybody should take most all of these lab tests and get them at least run. Even if you don't have an addiction, because if you've got a six, seven, seven gene, you can help prevent cancer and heart problems too, just by taking a little methyl folate. So yes,
Speaker 3: I think the results speak for themselves. I had seen that you had a client satisfaction survey at some point, I think, correct me if I'm wrong. I think it was like 86% of people felt that they had a great experience with your program, which is not surprising. I've had, you know, I try to keep track as best as I can in the virtual world of how people do I find that I estimate around eight out of 10 people, even with, you know, my course as a, as a affordable adjunct to whatever their recovery program is, eight out of 10 people say that they do are doing really well. And so obviously there's always some sample size or whatever self-selection bias, who knows, but that's really good. And even if it's, even if it's wrong by a factor of two or, you know, double what it should be in my case, I'm like, well, the, the standard treatment centers are having five, 10 or 15% success rates. So there's something remarkable going on here. Just telling people about biochemical restaurants.
Speaker 1: Yes. The other thing we do, which is critical for alcoholics is a fiber or five-hour glucose tolerance test. In the last 21 years, we've been doing this glucose tolerance test and every client, every alcoholic client, because they're more vulnerable because of the sugars and the alcohol that they drink and every alcoholic, but two tested positive for hypoglycemia, mild, moderate, severe pre-diabetic. We even have some diabetics come in. And if you understand that the symptoms of a blood sugar imbalance, when it goes up too high, you feel pretty bad bone when it drops down real low is when you really feel bad. And that's when people have a craving for more alcohol. So what a lot of alcohol doing once you get in that addictive pattern is they're also drinking to relieve their hypoglycemic symptoms. And then the fix for it is just healthy diet, healthy diet. You get them off the sugar, we get them off the sugar, the caffeine, the junk food. And they start eating three natural, healthy, organic meals, a day of freedom, nuts and yogurt in between to keep their blood sugar up. So it's critical for alcoholics. They come in some alcohol, they come in and we just give them an, they come into the office and they're shaking a little bit. They're signing, withdraw, and we give them protein drink with electrolytes. And a lot of that stuff just calms down and it's just hyperglycemia.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I've seen a lot of my private coaching clients do much better when increasing good fats and protein, taking some electrolytes and then taking some L-glutamine as well and just avoiding sugar. So many people are carb addicted and specifically sugar addicted. It's amazing to me that we don't have even more people addicted to alcohol. Cause it's almost transferable.
Speaker 1: Well, what I've read and I can't remember doctor is, is that, they're now saying that if you happen to eat a lot of sugar, when you're young, you're setting yourself up for sugar cravings your whole life. And that you're absolutely right. That will then transition into alcohol or other drugs because it's Denis all just self-medicating it's self-medicating with food or whatever. So yeah, it's, food's incredibly important for a healthy person right
Speaker 3: Now. What's your view of the relationship between an emphasis on the biochemical pillar and traditional recovery? It seems to me that you're pretty inclusive of both of those. And I like to be, you know, I'm honest with people. I say, look, I had a good experience in AA for a few months. I didn't need it after a certain point, but I did preserve some elements that people in the program would recognize such as that higher power, such as a really strong support network. But I do get sometimes I'd get that's actually, it's been a while, but I've gotten to some, I guess you could call it hate mail from some people being like stop telling people about vitamins. You're going to make them not go to AA meetings. I'm like, why does this have to be an either or proposition?
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a story, a cute story. Every time something comes up, I try to think of my fellow that helped get sober. And then we, we became friends and we played golf together today, even, even now in our lives, his dad was a serious alcoholic is, is, is he divorced his wife. He used to, he used to beat the older guys and used to verbally beat my friend. And he was pretty bad, pretty bad drunk. He was in the service, why he divorced his wife. And then a few years later, he married an old sweetheart and moved to wait, w Texas, somewhere in Texas. Well, Texas Woden, Texas, I think it was. And he was still drinking. And his wife said, you ain't going to do that. You're not going to do that. If you're going to be in their installation, you're going to give up the alcohol.
Speaker 1: You're going to go back to the church. So he did it. He stopped drinking. He went back, he went in to the kindergarten part of the church and learned about the Bible and learn on and all that. And he would end up being sober for 15 years before he died. I don't care how you get there. As long as you get there. I don't care if you say, Hey, I don't care where you have to go it to me. It just matters to people getting healthy and getting in and not continue to be in that addiction spiral. So yeah, I've I try not to pigeonhole all. You gotta do this, you gotta do that. And we try to offer a lot of, a lot of different approaches that people, we even, we claim not, we're not 12 steps. We don't do the 12 steps in our program, even though I still go and I love it.
Speaker 1: I got a lot of friends there. I played golf with a bunch of guys, but, but I think that that, that the AA is, has actually done a disservice to treatment centers. Because most people, I bet you, 90% of people don't want to have anything to do with it because there's God and his religion and all this stuff. So it keeps them from coming into treatment if your 12 step program. So we, we don't do the 12 sessions. You don't believe in charging something and get for free, but we expose people. We say, all right, you're going to go to some meetings, AA meetings, some Buddhist meetings and AA meetings. And you're going to, you're going to work with your life coach. That's one of the S one of the seven counselors they work with in our program. And you're going to have to build some con that's why I want to get you involved because you have to build some kind of support system.
Speaker 1: And, and you have to get connected with people, whether it's on podcasts or working with them at home or whatever. And, and, and, but it's funny because I would say 80% of the people that come into our program they're come in because they don't want to go to a, but probably 50% of those people when they're done, they use a, when they go out, because they get exposed to it, they find it's not horrible. And some people like it. And some people don't, there's women for sobriety, but this people have to gravitate something to keep them healthy, something, to keep them on the healthy road of recovery. Whether it's the stuff you do, whether it's AA or women for sobriety or a church. I know a lot of people that go to church and stay sober. So I don't care where they go. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right, right. Great answer. And I totally agree with that approach. So I know I said, I'd keep you for 45 minutes. Somehow. It's been close to 45 minutes. I feel like we could talk for hours, but I do want to make sure that you get a chance to tell people where they can find your book, where they can find your information about your program as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. It's, it's, that's the title of it. And you get it on Amazon, or they can go to our website, inner balance health center.com and they can download the, the, what do they call it? Not hard. They're not the paperback, but they can get a Kindle or something ETF version or something like that. They're for free. They don't have to pay for it. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Yep. Yep. And again, if they, if they want to, if they want to email me, J E Rover, R O V E R Gmail, be glad to send out, you know, we send out our lab work and it will take a doctor to, to, to go over it and help them. But we've worked with you even work with people's doctors to, to them look at what labs to do and where to get them, you know? Excellent. Joe, thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you for having me, Chris. Thank you.
Speaker 4: [inaudible].
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