Synopsis: Chris Scott interviews Ken Starr, MD, founder of Ken Starr MD Wellness Group and a twice-board certified addiction medicine physician that helps people detox and recover from alcohol, opioids, and benzos using various therapies such as NAD+ Infusion Therapy, Medication-Assisted Treatment, Supplementation, Myer’s Cocktail, and other Nutrient Infusions, Ketamine Infusions, and more.
- Dr. Starr’s supplement store: GetCleanSupplements.com
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Speaker 1: Anytime you're detoxing or in recovery, you're rebuilding your central nervous system, or you're making it less, you know, less kindling and less fryable. So anytime you can kind of stabilize and build on some someone's nervous system, they really feel better and things in their mood and the anxiety and cravings all improved. So my theory is that it really just acting as, as mitochondrial fuel and in a deficient state, it's probably what we're doing. I was reading this really interesting article NAD that came out the other day that they think NAD levels are the main reason people get sick with COVID. If you have an NAD deficiency state, which you do, if you are older, immunocompromised, obese, diabetic, that's you that's that's you get super sick with COVID it's those people. So the scientists, I can send you a link to that article. I'll speculate that any deal on this is actually related to whether you're going to get sick from chronic disease or more, be more susceptible to infections.
Speaker 2: Thanks for tuning into the elevation recovery podcast, your hub for addiction, recovery strategies hosted by Chris Scott and Matt Finch.
Speaker 3: Welcome everyone to the elevation recovery podcast. I'm Chris Scott. And today we have a guest who has actually been on the podcast before twice before with Matt Finch both times. It's actually an honor for me to talk with them and we've been on email chains together, and I've heard all about him. His name is Dr. Ken Starr. He's a twice board certified addiction medicine doctor and an ER doctor. And he uses the biochemical restoration techniques that we talk about a variety of them actually customized for individual patients, and also encourages people to kind of fuse that with the traditional model or alternative modalities that they find works best for them. So we're going to talk about that in the context of a little more alcohol addiction this time in the past, he's talked with Matt a lot about opioids and anything else that comes up today. So Dr. Star, thank you for being on the podcast. Thanks Chris. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. So I know that you've been doing, you've been running your NAD plus clinic, or I should say the Ken Starr and D wellness group, I believe it's called. And you've been helping people with all these modalities for like six or so years at this point, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah. We started our company. We started our program in 2011. So the wisdom is 10 years now.
Speaker 3: Oh, almost 10 years. All right. We'll have to update the show notes from the last episode. Can you talk a little bit, this might be a refresher for anyone who's seen those prior episodes, but how you got into doing that kind of stuff in the first place.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. Thanks Chris. So I am formally, or certainly formally trained as an emergency physician and I've been practicing emergency medicine and I still do since around 97, around 2011, 2010, my brother died of a heroin overdose. And at that point I really took a look about just to look around about what services were around for substance abuse and recovery and where I was living there just really wasn't much right. You had the County program that was really drug offenders who had to be there, or you had private expensive rehabs on the beach, which California is known for, but there really wasn't anyone doing sort of outpatient, med management and outpatient detox. And I was real comfortable with that from my ER experience. And this is sort of when Suboxone, maybe it was getting started more, getting a little bit more common and we are certainly seeing a lot of that in the ER.
Speaker 1: So I basically thought, Hm, I'm gonna, I'm going to start doing this. My best friend is an addiction psychiatrist. And we had spent a lot of time together and he's just like, Hey, can you, you got to start doing this man. And it's like, this is rewarding. It's fun. It's easy. You can get out of the ER eventually. So anyway, so I basically rented a little office in a, in a primary care doctor's office, down the street, I kind of called them up and said, Hey, can I rent your office space? And he's like, yeah, sure. And at that point, really, it was just opiates and Suboxone for mat. And then we did some, a little bit of alcohol treatment. I say, we it's me. I just did some alcohol withdrawal treatment. It was pretty ghetto. I mean, I just, it was me and a prescription pad and cross my fingers for the most part.
Speaker 1: Shortly after that, I teamed up with a lady living in town, who I just happened to meet coincidentally named Juliana back at who is really a powerhouse she's in recovery. She had a lot of experience as a, as a counselor with groups and programming and we got together. Then we actually started a program where we rented a bigger space. And then we started offering counseling and groups and individuals sort of therapy. It was about a few years into it. When I had a patient, I was doing mostly opiates. I think I had a patient who told me about this brain restoration therapy. They said they were going to go to someplace in Louisiana and get, do the strip. And they're going to get off opiates. And of course I'm thinking, whatever, good luck, race, whatever. I mean, they're going to sprinkle fairy dust on your head and you're going to be fine.
Speaker 1: So anyway, I followed up with that patient and they, they were like, Oh yeah, that was great. I'm fine. Like they, they had no draw that, no pause. They were in recovery. They're doing great. I was like, wait now, where did you go now? What's it called? So I did some research, made some calls, blah, blah, blah went down, trained again. I've told this story. So I'm unimportant, you know, bore your listeners. But you know, I trained on this NAD went to Springfield, Louisiana, which I'm sure you've heard about and saw what was going on. It was just like, Oh my God, this is amazing. Right. I'm seeing a whole room full of people, detoxing who were feeling fine. I couldn't believe it because I already been doing detox for years. And I just hadn't seen anything that effective. So I came back to California. I'm like, this is the bomb, man. This is going to change the face of drug and alcohol recovery. Like how well this works and so forth. So we started our NAD program here on the central coast of California around 2014, which really makes us one of probably the second longest running NAD program in the country now.
Speaker 1: So, and, and it's a big part of, of what we do now. We certainly do a lot of drug and alcohol treatment and detox without NAD. So we're not just an NAD program. In fact, the vast majority of our patients don't don't do anything with NAD, right? We're still an accredited state, licensed drug and alcohol treatment program. We do emphasize nutrition and supplements and we have a supplement line and we, we certainly focus on that, but eh, but we offer an NAD program in that. And I, and just because of the cost and time, it's not in the cards for everybody, but when we do it, it's really worth it. And so that's our story. So we've kind of grown over the years. We're now probably the largest private outpatient drug and alcohol treatment in California. I mean, or certainly between LA and San Francisco, we have probably, I don't know, probably 300 patients that we see regularly.
Speaker 1: And it's just a joy. It's a lot of fun. The patients are really a pleasure to work with and it's wonderful to see people get their lives back. I still do ER, one or two days a week to pay the bills, but I, I enjoy it. We've got a wonderful office staff. We've got a great office. We're just real fortunate. So that's kind of a quick background of, of what we do. And, and then yeah, in that process, I did get board certified in addiction medicine and, and go through all the, you know, all sorts of the traditional channels. Right,
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah. Well, I think it takes a special kind of person to open your mind to things that you probably weren't familiar with familiarized with in medical school. I'm sure you didn't learn about NAD. And I know it's a relatively new treatment
Speaker 1: And that Chris, but the, what we knew about addiction, I mean, I never had classes on addiction, right. I didn't, I didn't medical school. I did residency. I've been in major. I've worked in major hospitals. I've worked in rural hospitals. I don't think I had one hour on it on addiction. And it was, it wasn't really until I got into the field and, and really open my mind and talk to patients and read books or where I really learned about what, what, what really is addiction. Right? And so it's not something that most physicians have any working knowledge of. Not that they don't care, but they're just busy doing their thing. And it's just not, it's just not, they're not, they're not their gig.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, so about seven years ago, I quit drinking. And before that, I think I had been open with one doctor who, and I don't remember, I probably, I don't know if I went to an urgent care clinic or if it was my, I didn't really have a good history of being consistent with primary care doctors, but a generalist, I suppose. And I'd said, you know, I, I drink way too much it's problem. And he said, well, just quit. I said, okay, do you have any recommendations? There's I can check out AA. I said, is there anything else? Cause at the time, even I didn't want to go to AA for better or for worse. And I should say, I did utilize AA for several months in early recovery. I found it, helpful people were supportive. There are good things to be gotten from that.
Speaker 3: But at the time I wasn't ready to hear that, but I was, I was thinking like, can you give me a pill at the time? I wouldn't have cared if it was a medication or a nutrient, but he said, no, there's really nothing else. That's it. And during that time you were already operating your program at, in calc. I wish he'd say. Yeah, I wish he had said yes. Dr. Ken Starr in California has a clinic and they're doing cutting edge stuff, but it seems like, you know, I, haven't obviously been back to a doctor to talk about addiction in that period of time, but I would assume it's not that much better for the majority of people talking to their, their primary care doctors or whoever they go to see. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We're just now getting to the point where primary care clinics in our community are now referring patients to us, but addiction medicine is a new specialty. So seven years ago, when you decided to get clean, there may not have been outpatient drug and alcohol specialists that do this, just like you'd see a cardiologist for heart problem. And you're all just for a kidney problem. I mean, now addiction medicine is a board, is it as it is a recognized board certification specialists. So I'm an addiction medicine specialist just like you it's just like any other specialist. So I it's just, it's, it's, it's new, it's new. And I think that it's great for people, but yeah, most of, I think there's just a new recognition of it. Right. And I don't think seven years ago that was there. Certainly not where I lived that with there, there was no addiction medicine specialists. It was, yeah. It was just, it was just what it was just, you send them to rehab, right. Go to AA or go into rehab. That's it.
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah. And that was the model that I eventually, that I'd used at least at first. And I did go to inpatient rehab. It was very expensive. And there was zero talk about biochemical restoration or obviously NAD. And actually one, the only talk there was, was we were encouraged by a counselor at one point to laugh at the idiots out there who thought that you could quote, cure alcoholism with vitamins and they, along with everyone else, I was like, ha ha ha. Isn't that, isn't that fun because we'd been brainwashed to think that that was the only way was, was 12 step. And again, I, I have to be, I have to tread carefully because there are a lot of people who reach out to me for whom biochemical restoration is a missing link in their program, which they need to fix, but we don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water for people who do benefit from that.
Speaker 3: I think psycho-spiritual work can be profoundly important, but it does sometimes make my blood boil when people could be helped just with these missing links being filled in. And so that's, you know, what I've tried to do and I'm, I'm not a doctor is my audience knows. I used to work in finance. I had no I would ever be reading dozens of, or hundreds of books and studies on this topic. I did it for myself and then I try to motivate people to educate themselves as well. But I'm very relieved when I see people who, you know, go become board certified in addiction, medicine. It's something I'll never do. And hopefully slowly start to change that paradigm. So I'd imagine that we might have some doctors in this audience. I'm actually always surprised, pleasantly surprised by how many doctors have signed up for my online course, just to get some extra support.
Speaker 3: And I know it takes some putting ego aside for some people they should know more about this stuff than I do, but it's a missing link in an, in education for a lot of doctors. And then they, you know, email me and tell me how well they're doing later, but I think there's always an initial skepticism. So if there are doctors in our audience who are watching this, how might you, in a nutshell, if possible, explain the nature of the missing link, the biochemical repair, some of the strategies you use, maybe including NAD, but also, I know you do Myers cocktails, B12 shots, you try to address ATP deficiency. There's a range of things, customized program for people, but how does that all fit in? You know, I know you started out with medication assisted treatment. What was it like to kind of obviously not leave that behind entirely, but start to embrace these new concepts?
Speaker 1: Well, the, the nutritional aspects of recovery, which you're so well versed in and I, and I, and I, I enjoy and I practice it and I believe in it, I think is an important part, but I think we need to like back the lens up because it was even more important is that is creating that environment and stewardship of, okay. Accountability about honesty, about integrity and getting people connected into recovery community. Right? I think those are the big things. Cause I always tell patients, look at medication. I mean, once people are safely detox, let me back up, right? Once people are safely detox off alcohol and then we have a follow-up visit and they've been sober for say a week or so. I usually say, look at medicines, have a small role there's prescriptions that we can use, like naltrexone or Gabapentin or an abuse. And here's how they work. Not everybody needs this. This is just a small role. And this is a good tool. If you want to try something like that, go ahead. But here's some other things that can help you decrease cravings and help you feel better and improve your, your energy and improve your memory and improve your mind and just help. And then I kind of go on to my list of, you know, here's some basic nutrition, here's some supplements, here's some more aggressive things that you can do.
Speaker 1: So the first thing is like, just get into a program of community and support and connection. Right. But speaking but back, but speaking about nutrition. Yeah. I mean, look, alcohol causes a nutritional wasteland, right? You burn through all your NAD. Anybody can just Google right now, images, alcohol metabolism. And you'll see that you used two molecules of NAD to metabolize one molecule of alcohol. Well, so if you're a drinker, you're NAD, deficient and doctors a long time ago in the fifties, figured this out, right. And started supplementing people with NAD. And when you give those patients NAD, they, you know, withdrawal, it goes away. I mean, they just feel so much better like their, their skin glows. They th th it's just unimaginable. What you see cravings go down. Their life comes back, their energy systems improve. Cause NAD, as we know now is involved in over 400 important reactions from sleep to immune system health, to aging, to, to in your destruction.
Speaker 1: I mean, so many things are NAD dependent. It's certainly, and the big thing now is longevity, right? You can't, if anything, you Google about NAD now is all longevity and Sinclair and you know, anti-aging so, but yeah, so we have found like, you know, like I take no credit for inventing any of this stuff. Right. But we have found and believe that when we give these patients intense nutritional replenishment, IV NAD, but Myers cocktails, B vitamins, B complex, B12 finding vitamin C magnesium, they just get just, the resiliency is just, I mean, they're, they just feel so much better, so faster. Their recovery goes smoother. And of course, I'm not saying you do that in place of a recovery program, but, but when those patients, patients who do these intense nutritional programs, absolutely feel better, faster, recover faster and struggle less.
Speaker 3: Right? No, that's a great answer. I'd like to zoom in a little bit more on NAD as my first, the first time I'd heard of it was for anti-aging and I actually took it. I think I'd taken, it was either NMN or something else. I don't recall the exact
Speaker 1: NR there's there's nicotinamide riboside right. Nicotine into my driver's side or our NMN, which is nicotine. And my Edmondo nucleotide, both NAD precursors.
Speaker 3: Right. My dad takes NMN he's 74 and does 500 plus pushups every day. He also incidentally cut out high sugar sodas and alcohol about when I quit drinking and he lost 30 pounds. And it's unclear how much is the NAD levels, but he's glowing. He looks better than he did when he retired 10 years ago. And so, you know, I love to see that, but I know it's also really helpful for people in early recovery. Unfortunately, I didn't know about NAD. When I was in early recovery, I managed to use a variety of other nutrients, the magnesium, as you mentioned, some amino acids, some evidence-based herbs and fatty acids, Omega threes to reduce inflammation. I wish I had known about NAD, but for someone who might've started on the other things, you know, do you think it's necessary for them to start taking oral NAD? How should they decide whether or not to go to a clinic to get NAD infusions? Or do you think it's only necessary for some people
Speaker 1: There's different ways to administer NAD? There's I V N a D, which is what we're doing in like a 10 day brain restoration, detox, substance abuse recovery program. These are high doses of NAD. There is a nasal spray of NAD. There's transdermal patches of NAD, and now there's sublingual and a D. So those are all the NAD products. Then, as you mentioned, there's precursors to NAD that you can take orally. So if you just take NAD orally, it just gets dissolve in the stomach. Nothing happens. So you really won't see any NAD products that you just swallow, but there are precursors. In other words, NAD is recycled through salvage pathways in your body and the precursors that make NAD, R N M N nicotinamide mano nucleotide, which is like what Sinclair takes. It's not as accessible and available as another product called and our or nicotinamide riboside.
Speaker 1: So nicotine might ride beside and NMN are both precursors that go to NAD. It's been proven and shown that if you give somebody nicotinamide riboside and a D levels go up, they've measured this in humans. No question about it. And some of the NAD scientists like Brennan and Sinclair Brennan, by the way, as the guy who discovered nicotinamide riboside and is the mind behind chroma decks, the only company that makes it, his argument is you really only should take a precursor. If you take NAD, it's just degraded and metabolized to products that then that can be taken up into cells and uses NAD. And the example is, if you want healthy colleges on your skin, you don't take collagen powder and rub it on your face. You eat protein or ecology and your body synthesizes, healthy proteins, and then integrate that into tissues. But a researcher named Ross grant out of Australia, who's one of the leading scientists.
Speaker 1: Ben, he's not a doc treating Dr. B's Ben scientists. He's proven that if you give I V N a D a, it is upgraded. It is uploaded and increases NAD levels and is used by cells. So his theory is that there is a, yet to be discovered transporter. So there's something bringing NAD across, and that can tell you, when we give patients NAD, it works, they feel better. They feel different. I mean, maybe it's placebo. So w you know, if somebody wants to take NAD for health, longevity, lifespan, wellness, they're fine. Taking a sublingual or a precursor product. I probably would just recommend nicotinamide riboside or NMN. I have not yet found pharmaceutical grade high quality NMN that is easily accessible and affordable. So I'm sure it's out there, but nicotine might ride beside is you can get that on Amazon. You can get that, you know, anywhere, all the, all the nicotine might ride beside out there, no matter who it's labeled by whether it's true, whether it's true nitrogen or thorn is all made by one company.
Speaker 1: Only one company makes the world supply of nicotinamide riboside because they have the patent on it. I think that's a great product. I think it works. I think it's, I think it's, I think it's, it's, it's fine. If you're trying to do NAD to a detox of substances, like alcohol, or really improve your recovery, you can start with a product like that. There's nothing wrong with it, but you might want to try IV NAD to see what the effect is. The only thing I'd say is that most people using NAD are say, IV infusion clinics. Right? In other words, they're just IVF. They're not drug and alcohol treatment specialists at all. They're IB infusion clinics. Like, yeah, we do vitamin C we'll do Myers cocktail. We'll do banana bag. Well this, Oh, and we learned about NAD and we're going to offer it cause we can make money doing it.
Speaker 1: That's not the place that we'd go for a treatment program because they don't know how to the complexities. Right. If you give somebody a ranch, it doesn't make them a mechanic. Right. So they're not the place that I would go for more specialized care. But if you want to try Ivy NAD, why not? I mean, sure. You could probably go to a bigger city, go to infusion clinic and try out. Sure. I would sure make it. Sure. It's really NAD and not something. There's a lot of manufacturers now in that space. And I don't think they all have pure products, but yeah, I, I, I think it's fine. And, and I think it's very helpful. And honestly, even though we're split actually drug and alcohol program, Chris, probably most of our patients who are coming in and doing NAD are not doing it for substance abuse indication.
Speaker 1: They're doing it for wellness clarity. Their Headspace is clear. We have a group of like transcendental meditation women that come in and do NAD just because it gets them into a higher place. We have people do a NAD for nerve pain for depression. It seems to be very effective for nerve conditions, like say regional pain syndrome, fibromyalgia it, NAD is really a foundational substrate for nerve cell mitochondria. So any central nervous system condition that is not great. You could try NAD and see if it helps like putting super unleaded in the tank. I mean, if your engine's broken, it's not going to start running, but it can sure. Help things run better. So yeah, I, so yeah, it's nag is great. It's a wonderful supplement and it, it, and it it's it's role in drug and alcohol really is amazing. I mean, what it does is nothing short of miraculous. I have patients who are continuous relapsers, who've been in a lot of programs and they do attend to NAD program and they've, they've never felt or done better. It seems to really result in some significant improvements that are hard to achieve other ways. And that's on top of traditional recovery programs.
Speaker 3: I know it was a little bit mysterious maybe as recently as a few years ago, about what exactly is going on in the brand, you know, are we resetting neural pathways? Is it just the deficiency in this base compound that's used for so many other biological processes? Do we have any more light on what's? What exactly is going on with an ID for addiction recovery?
Speaker 1: No, not really. I mean, they're, the molecular biology would suggest that it has to do with, I think it's, Ribos dephosphorylation. In other words, when you develop a tolerance to a substance like alcohol, right? You develop a tolerance to it. There's the molecular mechanism where I think these ribosome molecules are phosphorylated and that's the molecular biology of sort of, of what tolerances and NAD, I guess, does something where the signs and I'm not a molecular biologist. I don't pretend to be, but it, but when I've tried to talk to them about it, it apparently NAD has a role in the phosphorylation pathways that seem to eliminate really minimize. I shouldn't say eliminate really minimize withdrawal and accelerate post-acute withdrawal. So certainly in an NAD deficiency state like alcohol, I mean, I love it. When people come in and do any D for an alcohol use disorder, alcohol recovery, compared to people are doing NAD safer, opiate recovery or NAD for benzo recovery, because the alcohol, I know the alcohol recovery patients, it's gonna, if they're, if they're going to get blown away, I mean, they're blown every one of them blown away.
Speaker 1: I know they're going to have an amazing response. I know they're going to feel great. So I love it. When this patient show up benzos, I hope they feel better, you know, like, and sometimes they do sometimes helpful, but I really try to under promise and over-deliver so that Mo so you're asking what's the molecular biology. I don't think it resets. I think that's more like why, why ketamine while we use ketamine with NAD, we can go into that. But ketamine has more of a nerve reset principle. NAD just seems to really act as this amazing foundation for nervous system support. And anytime you're in detoxing or in recovery, you're rebuilding your central nervous system, or you're making it less, you know, less Kindle and less fryable. So anytime you can kind of stabilize and build on some someone's nervous system, they really feel better and things in their mood and anxiety and cravings, all improved.
Speaker 1: So my theory is that really just acting as, as mitochondrial fuel and in a deficient state is probably what we're doing, but the molecular biology I need, I actually need to review it because I'm doing a lecture on NAD for, for some molecular biologist. So I, I don't know, I need to kind of brush up on it. If there's some articles on it, you can read most of them. Aren't really, I don't know. It's, it's used in so many pathways. I was reading this really interesting article NAD that came out the other day that they think NAD levels are the main reason people get sick with COVID. If you have an NAD deficiency state, which you do, if you are older, immunocompromised, obese, diabetic, that's you that's, you get super sick with COVID. Is those people, so the scientists, I can send you a link to that article, all speculate that NAD levels is actually related to whether you're going to get sick from chronic disease or more, be more susceptible to infections. So anyway, NAD is just, it's blowing up.
Speaker 3: I've read a lot about the connection potentially between vitamin D deficiency and COVID, and it would be odd if there was only one natural compound that was involved, you know, correlated,
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah. I've been taking vitamin D since that whole thing started. And there's some good, I think there's some good science behind that. So, you know, in eight, so I don't, I can't give you an exact mechanism. I th I, I'm just going to throw out ride Ribos phosphorylation. And just, if, if you're a molecular biologist, you can call on that. And, and that's fine, but if you're just a kind of a normal guy, like, yeah, it sounds good.
Speaker 3: I can't call on it. I've just noticed usually I can get the gist of studies and I couldn't make much sense of the you're not being trained as a doctor or a molecular biologist. I still couldn't get the, come up with a conclusive picture of what's going on with this NAD thing. But I will say that I've had several private coaching clients who have done an a D treatment and all for alcohol recovery, obviously. And their stories were amazing. One of them had been drinking like a liter of vodka. She worked from home every day for God knows how many years and went and did this clinic. And on the third day, I think there was like a 10 day treatment. I'm not sure where she went at the time. If I had known about you, I would have referred her to you. But she, I think on the third day she went to go have a, have a lunch.
Speaker 3: The only place you could do it was a bar. And she, she left the bar and thought to herself, wow, that's weird. And never even occurred to me that they were serving alcohol in there. That was like, Whoa. You know, this was a woman who had trouble driving past, you know, strip malls. They might have liquor stores in them. And she had lunch in a bar and the third day, and was just focused on or launched and then left. I mean, that's the kind of apifany I had like two years alcohol free where I would go to like a wedding and then I would leave and I'd be like, Oh, there are people drinking there. That's weird. But it took me that long. And if she could get anywhere near there in a couple of days, it's amazing. I might show up to your clinic, you know, seven years late just to see if there's anything that can do for me. I'm sure. I'm sure it would. I mean, I'm pretty optimized, but I'm always trying to get to the next level. And NAD infusions are really interesting to me.
Speaker 1: And there's actually, there's actually an N not to plug any specific pathway or program. There's actually an NAD clinic in Georgia. Okay.
Speaker 3: I heard of that. Yeah. But I know there is one, that's more cause in Louisiana, and that's the one where you went to, right. Or you had studied it.
Speaker 1: That's where you go to train, but there's a guy who actually knows what he's doing is on an NAD board with me. And I will, I'll put it in the show notes. I'll send it to you. It's we get a lot of calls and emails like, Hey, do you know anyone doing NAD where I live in, you know, blank? And usually it's like, no, I mean, I've got, I've got, there's a program. There's a couple of co-op programs in California. There's a program in Oregon. There's a program in Washington. There's a program in Georgia. There's one in Florida, but we get a ton of calls from like the Northeast, like, you know, New York. And I, I don't know of anyone up there doing NAD, like not, not, not to say there's not an infusion clinic that offers NAD, but like, are there addiction and drug and alcohol specialist using NAD? I don't know the answer to that. Okay.
Speaker 3: Besides NAD, have you noticed that any supplements in particular tend to help people with alcohol addiction or recovery?
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, sure. First of all, I always recommend, you know, be complex. I always recommend to be complex and not one single B-vitamin cause in nature, I don't think they're in solid solidarity like that. I mean, or an isolation like that. So I always recommend generous. B-vitamins at least orally they're cheap. It's, they're effective. I always double them up. I've taught people that I should have, you know, yellow pee all day, as you know, the, the, the, the gastric absorption of those is very poor. You're not absorbing, but a small percentage probably, you know, maybe even single digits when you take something like that early. So I like, I like a multivitamin, but specifically a B complex, there's a supplement called essential essential. We call it essential recovery support. And it really is actually just decreases carb cravings. And that is, that has like five HTP DLP, a tire scene and glutamine in it. And then of course, your times sometimes we'll use just pure gluten, gluten glutamine, right. For Macola immediate craving control. And that's just glutamine, amino acid powder. They just put in your mouth and it decreases cravings.
Speaker 1: I think anything that you do to improve gut health is good. So, you know, probiotics or prebiotics are testing your gut through like a program called, like, LUNGevity make sure you fix your, you know, what you, you're small your gut health, whether it's that CIBA or, you know, that, that that's super important. I like, I think vitamin D supplementation super important. I think magnesium, it can be really helpful. I that's pretty much the B this are kind of the basics for me and we'll use those in higher doses IV. So we'll give IV vitamin C mag and B vitamins in real high doses, more frequently, maybe even a couple of times a week. And we'll also do that in the NAD program, because if we get an alcohol patient who comes in, if they don't have the, the nutrient foundation NAD, sometimes we'll make them worse. So like, we'll have to give them Ivy thymine and B vitamins to make sure that, that they, that they cause any D is going to rev up. They're, they're sort of nutritional, I don't know, bill, that's going to start building up and doing a lot of recovery and it needs other products to do that. So I've kind of found that if we give some of the, some of the B vitamins and other minerals before we do NAD, it even works better.
Speaker 3: Well, because they're burning more energy to have the NAD, right. I mean, that's just a theory. You were kind of makes sense. You know, if you don't have the other raw materials for biological processes that are in turbo show, it might be tough. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I, I think, I think there's a role. We don't really do it, but I think, I think Omega is, and fatty acids are super important for brain health. And I think that if people are detoxing, I stopped their statin. A lot of times people are on statins. I stopped their statins. Cause I want their fatty acids to build up a little bit and cholesterol to build up a little bit for their brain health.
Speaker 3: Right. I know standards have become at least somewhat controversial. A lot of people who are more holistically minded are, or, you know, not quite sure if they even have a role in medicine anymore. And that's not a quick, I'm well versed in. But my, I think my mom had taken statins for a while and I think the whole thing around cholesterol or the narrative around that might be shifting, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. My, my view on that is if you've had a primary event, like you've had a heart attack, you've had a stroke. And I think there's some pretty good evidence that the statin drugs can prevent subsequent events. But if you're healthy, they don't prevent anything. That's my opinion prevent anything. And I think they have a lot of side-effects. So unless, so if you're just thinking it's going to prevent a heart attack or prevent a stroke, I don't, I think they have more problems than they're worth. Right. So I don't, I, I take a lot of patients off the statins, honestly.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I know. So we've talked a lot about biochemical restoration, but you're also encouraged people to heal as whole people. Matt and I like to talk about the, the biochemical psychological social, spiritual model of addiction treatment. Is that something that you'd like to talk to people about their diet, their exercise, but also, and their spirituality or their just having a sense of purpose. Do you find those are important too?
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely. The, you know, I mean, I'm always emphasizing number one, you have to get good restorative sleep. Right? So, so many of my drinkers feel like they have to drink to go to sleep. Cause it makes them tired. But of course, when they learn that they're not getting that restorative deep level of sleep, they're what, what are they doing then? Now they're accelerating their aging. They're accelerating cellular destruction. They're accelerating abnormal brain pathways. That brain pathways by not being fully rested. So sleep is ex exercise. You got to get them exercising, even if they're just doing 20 air squats and five pushups. I mean, you've got to start getting some daily exercise or going for a walk. I tell them, look at predominant. I put on a podcast, preferably yours put on a podcast. Do you have a dog? Oh, that dog needs. If you want to go out for 45 minutes and just walk fast, you just do it and just get some fresh air, get some sunlight.
Speaker 1: I mean, I, I gotta get an exercising. I've got to get them off processed foods. You know, you gotta meet people where they are. Sometimes that's a little much, but we try to clean up their diet, try to get them exercising, try to get normal sleep, wake cycles, get them in a program and, you know, develop some of these, encourage some of these nutritional supplements. And yeah. And that's, that's, that's, it's all part of it. It all makes it better. I mean, when you can get into some, you know, I I'm, I published something on YouTube about part of the healing, your, your central nervous system is learning to calm your central nervous system. So I put out something on like Wim, Hof breathing and cold water, because I think that's pretty powerful. And I found a lot of people being like, Oh my God, hell yeah, this is phenomenal. I just detoxed and tapered off benzos. And I did Wim Hof breathing in cold water. And I'm fine. This is minimum. I feel great. So there's a lot, you can, you can't start throwing that stuff out to somebody who's, you know, not even getting off the couch, but yeah, you've got to have an exercise program and there's fortunately, there's so many great resources on that. Now. I don't, I can't remember. It's called, they've seen those two brothers in recovery on YouTube that have, that are real fitness oriented. I'm horrible with names
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Speaker 1: There's, there's, there's some great YouTube resources that they refer people to. And so, yeah, I, it's not just like go to a 12 step meeting. It's not just stop drinking. You've got to, you know, you've got to have a program of recovery. Like if, if this was easy, it would be easy. I wouldn't have a job, right? If this was, you could just stop drinking. I wouldn't have a podcast. You wouldn't have bucket. I mean, so people need a plan. They need some training, they need a new skill set. They need new coping mechanisms. They need new tools in the toolbox when people are drinking it, it really comes down to, they started drinking because it was the best solution they had at the time for the stresses and the trauma they had at the time. So just like any maladaptive behavior, it's, it's a great short-term solution.
Speaker 1: It's a terrible long-term solution. So, you know, we can talk about nutrition. We could talk about exercise. We could talk about how great the supplements are, but you know, you've these patients they need, they need to understand why they're chemically coping, what they're avoiding, teach them how to deal with those new raw emotions. What did they say? The best part of being sober is now you get to deal with these raw emotions and problems, and then the worst part of being sober. Now you have to deal with these raw emotions and problems so that you just can't be avoided. So, you know, that's why I think you need programming. We need counseling. We need new tools in the toolbox. And if yes, we can absolutely get people feeling better, faster with appropriate nutrition and supplements. But again, it's just one part of this whole solution, right?
Speaker 1: They need, they need inspiration. Like Matt does such a good job with inspiring people and giving them a plan and giving them coaching. I don't think, I don't tell. I don't ever tell people. I just need to go to AA, but you need a plan if it works for you. Wonderful, great. You know, do your 90 meetings in 90 days. But if that just triggers you and it's not effective for you, then let's come up with something else. Let's do smart recovery. Let's do individual counseling. Some of the best people in our community are not licensed therapists. They're just recovery coaches and they're life coaches who are, who have found recovery on their own. So I don't know where I'm going with that. I would just say, yeah, it's, it's a big, it's a, it's a huge, it's, it's, it's just a huge constellation of, of, of, of self-improvement of continuous self-improvement.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Yeah. And that alcohol recovery centered life coaching is essentially what I've done for several years. Now, Matt has actually done, Matt Finch has done a great job with some people were found fit recovery as a coach, as along with Tana coach Vianna. And I know Matt is a certified substance abuse counselor. We spent a lot of time during that coach tennis certified in biochemical restoration coaching. And Brian is certified in the psychology of eating and also addictive disorders as well. Ironically, I'm the least certified of, of everyone. I have no letters after my name. Don't pretend to form of career, but I am passionate about this. And I find that people, when people approach this as like an open-ended adventure, you know, not just like a series of steps that need to be done, and then that's not a shot at AA, but I just mean like, it's not like, all right, first do this, this and that.
Speaker 3: No, no, this is the, it needs to be at an all encompassing spiritual journey. As much as I hate the word journey, I don't have a better one. You're becoming, you're forging a new identity that hopefully retains the best parts of, of who you've always been. But you add on these layers of growth and you know, it was Tony Robbins who one of my favorite authors from early recovery, we always say like happiness is growth. And I found that recovery is growth as well. And at some point the recovery stops becoming about alcohol. And for me at a certain point in my life stopped becoming about recovery. And as much as it stopped becoming about the absence of alcohol and it started becoming about the plethora of new things that I would rather devote my energy towards and alcohol just fell off the priority list, you know?
Speaker 3: And so a lot of people can get there, but it takes work in the biochemical Rome, for sure, especially in early recovery, but I mean life optimism, lifestyle optimization and biochemical optimization are still primary focuses of my life. To this day. I probably took about, I don't know, eight or nine supplements this morning. They're all targeted to, towards my own needs at this point, immunity being one of them with the ongoing pandemic, but also, you know, mental acuity things I'll notice. So my sleep wasn't great for the last two weeks. How can I tweak this? Maybe I'll take some glycine before bed, you know, maybe I'll try this herb, this Chinese tonic herb that Matt showed me a few weeks ago. People don't need to obsess over it to the level I do. I find it fun. But I found that people who do make it a passion to try to figure out the puzzle of their lives, biochemistry included, but also psychology social lives and, and spirituality tend to do much better as time goes on and things start to feel more manageable and the whole thing can really be fun. So I know we've talked for, I think around 45 minutes at this point, I feel like you and I could talk for hours and I'm definitely, I'd like to have you back on for another episode at some point, but I wanted to make sure that you give people information on where they can find you and your supplement company as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thanks Chris. Well, the, our supplement, my supplement shop is called get clean supplements.com. And I started that a couple of years ago with clean, get clean supplements, clean being read. These are all supplements designed for substance abuse, addiction, recovery, but also clean cause they're simple high quality products. So it's called get clean supplements.com. My website is just Ken Starr, md.com with two RS, Ken start md.com. And we have a YouTube channel that where we try to put out useful information. When things come out, we have a little blog that we try to do. Of course, social media is not my forte. I kind of gave up on it. We do. So don't look for me on Twitter. Instagram. I do have an Instagram account, but I don't know. It's sucks. I can't do it
Speaker 3: Now to Instagram. I'm I can tell everyone I'm coming back. If I haven't already, by the time this up,
Speaker 1: It's pretty embarrassing. My son has an Instagram account for Subarus. I'll put a plug in there for him. Cause he likes Subarus. He has 11,000 followers.
Speaker 3: I might need irony too.
Speaker 1: No. And, and, and, and I'm like, and I would, I actually have hired a social media company to do blogs and I would get like, you know, six likes or like four engagement. Like it wasn't going anywhere. It's like, why, why am I doing this? No one, no one cares. I think anyway, I think it's kind of important for what we do, but I don't know. It's not as I haven't figured it out. Anyway, we do get clean supplements.com is where we actually sell sublingual NAD and nasal spray NAD, which are by far the biggest products that we, that we sell. And we have some basic things. I mean, it's not everything for everybody, but it's essential recovery support. It's immediate craving control NAD products. There's a pro a product called serve you, which is really good for just mental focus and helps with in the pause syndrome. And then the website is it just kind of lists what our services are. And I think our YouTube channels really where we can answer questions, make videos, talk about mat, talk about medications, why we use them, how we use them. We have a lot on NAD, ketamine and so forth. So, yeah.
Speaker 3: Excellent. I believe we have a coupon curd. Four, four, four, I think is the code. You can go. Anyone can go to the show notes on elevation recovery.com and find this particular episode with Dr. Ken Starr and you'll find the code Matt. And I will make sure to put it in the show notes as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Right. Four, four fours is a coupon code, right for you guys. Awesome. So the 10% off.
Speaker 3: Excellent. Well, Dr. Ken Starr, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been a pleasure. Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's been a lot of fun.
Speaker 4: [inaudible].
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